Category: Daily Living
For all of you who haven't seen it, this thread is predated by the "Socially Awkward Blind People" thread on the Rants board.
I've made this thread for the sole purpose of the blind and visually impaired asking and answering each other's questions on public social etiquette. If you have a question about anything, ranging from silverware and how to wear certain items of clothing, to self-rocking or hair care, and anything else you're curious about, please feel free to ask here.
Anyone may ask as many questions as they want, and answer as many as they want as well. However, keep in mind that the answers you get may be only true for a certain situation, or may only be that forum meber's opinion. We're all here for the same reasons, so we might as well work together to figure some things out.
Ask away!
Here's one for ya, and I know some of you must be successful with this because you work with people and not machines. How do you know if your audience, even an audience of one, is "getting it" with what you're trying to explain? It seems I'm always slow on the trigger to notice I've either lost somebody, or vice versa they got it and I thought maybe they were bored / done with what we were doing. This making sense to anyone? Never asked about it before. In fact I used to think it was some other shortcoming; read Dale Carnegie, etc. But I wonder if we end up missing a lot of cues, or at least I do, that people communicate with their eyes ... as I say some of you must have solved it since your work is with people and not machines. Interested in any thoughts
I've done work in counseling, and this type of thing is important when working with people. In fact, there are many sighted people out there who don't think blind people can be effective counselors, precisely because of the phenomenon you're describing.
I think part of it is, if you're trying to explain something, ask the occasional question to make sure the person is still with you. That way it gives them a chance to communicate if they are or not. And, even if they say they are, if they're lying, often times their vocal tone will give them away: they'll sound confused, or bored, or absent-minded, etc. Part of being an effective communicator is being an attentive and active listener, and especially for us as blind people.
Listen to sound cues. Are they fidgeting, rustling something in their hands? When they do speak to you, is their voice turned away, or sounding like they're looking down at their lap or off somewhere else?
As I say, it's a mix of sound cues, vocal tone, and communication. Sometimes you have to use communication to create those sound cues for yourself, if the person isn't giving you any. I do think there are times we miss things due to body language, but I also think it can be overcome and compensated for, if one knows how. Hope some of this has helped.
Agree with Sister Dawn on this one. The other thing is to be an enthusiastic communicator. I've known some people, blind and sighted, who are the dullest presenters. I think it helps to believe that what you are discussing is the most important thing in the world at that moment. when I teach, I'm usually exhausted afterward, because I throw myself into it. Use humor when you can, and try to find out if your audience is with you. Again as Sister Dawn said, ask questions. When I can, I try to avoid podiums, as I find them a barrier to my audience. If I'm behind a table, I try to stand on the side closer to the audience. I can move back and forth across that area, but I try to keep myself where I can feel the table in case I need notes or a prop or something.
Thanks Ms. M for starting this topic.
Lou
i agree with posts of alicia and others
Thanks guys, yes I can see help in all of this. It even affects parenting a teenager to be honest; I'm not one of those father lecture types but there are times an explanation or instruction is warranted. The feedback thing is probably a good idea because then you know they got it, not just think they do.
This question has been answered very well, so I won't add any more to it.
Anyone else got a question? Don't be shy boys and girls. If nothing pops up in a few days, I'll pose one myself, but I'd rather see more of you shy people get involved here.
Ok here is a question.
As far as i know when i meet a new person for the first time i suppose to shake hands with the person. In Cyprus which is my country as far as i know everyone shakes hands. In England older people seam to shake hands more often but young people sometimes don't.
I remember once when my girlfriend introduced me to some of her friends and i reached my hand out but they didn't shake hands with me so probably i looked stupid having my hand out on the air lol.
I don't know what happens in the states or other countries but what do you do when you meet somebody for the first time? Do you wait for them to come and shake hand with you? Do you reech your hand out like i do or you do nothing lol. It is good to see what other people think.
Hate to be the one writing back, we do need input from more people, but when I asked someone sighted about this very thing he said he gets the same, only it's quicker because if they start to stick a hand out, well they can just pull it back before it gets noticed if the other person isn't doing it. It's a problem to me anyway but the lack of ritual makes it worse, because there's no understood ground. When I was in Japan, everyone bowed, everyone held out a business card with one hand while expecting to receive one in the other, and so all you need do was follow the formula. Not saying there should be one or not, but it's the general confusion. And if you care, you're uptight, while otherwise, you can appear awkward. Nobody likes a no-win situation. Sorry to be negative but it's not just you. I don't like 'let's all greet' or 'mix it up' type things, unless everyone's had a few then it's usually ok ... lol
Here in the US, shaking hands when meeting someone for the first time is the most common custom. At least, that's always been my experience. I personally hold out my hand. I try to be careful how far I extend it, or to what level, based on how close the person is standing to me. For example, if it's a woman I'm greeting, I don't want to touch her boob. I've had that done to me by other blind people, and remember doing that once myself, which is how I learned to be careful. That was definitely an oops. At any rate, the sighted person usually sees my hand there, and shakes it, and most of the time, I find that they were actually already extending their hand to me. that tends to happen with other blind people, too. Most of the time, we find each other's hands without incident, or if not right away, might touch an arm or something. That is fairly harmless, I think. Just my personal experience/opinion.
Once again, awesome topic. I'm really enjoying reading these questions and answers. Can't think of any myself right now but I'm sure I'll come up with some eventually.
Shaking hands is the norm her in the States, as has already been said. If you're ina group of people, and someone is introducing you, the closest person may grab your hand, or touch your arm, to let you know that a hand is extended. I've had this happen, say like, in a noisy bar. It doesn't happen too often. Most times, if you're the first to extend your hand, the other personally will usually find it. At least, this has been my experience.
Sorry for that crappy typing.
I think one way to avoid embarrassment is to extend your hand but not just shove it out there...If this makes since? I lift my hand and extend it at waist level far enough that I don't need to be grabbed or poked for someone to get a hold of my hand but not so far as to be poking/grabbing the other person...I'm not quite sure how else to explain it... :)
Agree with Cattleya. Only difference is I bring my hand up slowly at the waste, bending my arm at the elbow. Lately I've been meeting a good number of children who are blind. I might sometimes preface the handshake with "Hand at ya," or "Here's my hand." My wife, who is sighted, will sometimes subtly touch my right arm to let me know that someone is extending a hand as well. I find this helpful for seeing people who are regular handshakers whenever they see me.
Lou
Basically the same...Just didn't know how to explain it. :) And, my husband does the same, or he might simply say "honey" quietly and that lets me know that either I'm offering a hand they're not going to take or they're offering a hand I haven't responded to yet. :)
i will hold out my hand most of the time.
Most people are hopefully gonna realize that you're blind at some point, so, perhaps in most cases, there wouldn't be that much of a handshake delay.
I'd also like to point out that in the US, this is mostly done among adults or in a business or formal setting. Generally, during random meetings on the street or at a fun event, handshakes aren't done as often.
Anyone got another question for the group? Step up, step up, don't be shy. :)
This question doesn't pertain to me necessarily, cause I'm okay with silverware, though I do avoid salad with big lettuce leaves and spaghetti (not my favorite foods anyway). I noticed on another board post that a lot of blind people have their entrees pre-cut at restaurants. Why?? I'd kind of like to address the silverware issue. So many of us want to be regarded as equals in the sighted world. I was shocked to learn how many people have difficulty with cutting food. I'm not speaking of those with cerebral palsy or other muscular disorders. Honestly, it's not really that hard to learn. I've never asked for my food pre-cut. If an items sounds too tricky to manage gracefully, then I just usually don't order it. I'd be happy to help with any food-cutting or restaurant issues.
did you know that it's propper ettiquette to cut with your right hand? This involves a lot of switching utensils, which is why the British say that we use the zigzag method of eating. This too isn't too difficult to learn, it just takes practice.
Hi and thanks to all who answer my question.
I have to say that i am one of the people who have difficulty cutting up food. A lot of people tried to teach me several times but i still find it very difficult. But i know that i have to learn and i don't like the fact that i can't do it at the moment. When i go out with people that i don't know well and i can't ask them to help me with cutting the food i usually order something that doesn't need much cutting up.
Hmmm, cutting up food is a tricky one.
From my own experience, I've found the best way is to use your fork or knife to 'trace' the item first, find its borders, figure out its shape and how big it is. Then I stab the fork into the nearest edge of the food item in front of me a small ways away from that border - a "bite size," if you will. Then I use the knife to cut the food directly behind the fork.
Keep repeating as necessary to get your delicious foods. :)
Anyone else have suggestions?
Well, my issue with cutting food is that I feel like I have to have my hand on it to know whether I'm cutting it properly or not, and I know that's not good etiquette. I think the main reason for this bad habit is that no one really ever showed me how to cut up food, and I got to a point where I just decided to learn it on my own. So I did the best I could, but I hold the fork in my left hand almost at the bottom so I can feel what I'm doing with that hand, and also as a brace so to speak. I find that when I don't do it that way, whatever it is slides away from me, and sometimes the pieces I'm cutting slide off the plate. So if anyone has any suggestions on how I could improve, that would be great. And as for asking to have food cut up for me at a restaurant, I would never do that. That just seems like asking for pity to me, no offense, but I just really find it unnecessary. If I'm going to be around people and it's a formal setting, I just order something that won't require much cutting.
I try not to cut food in public as well because I suck at it. I'd never heard of ordering it precut...And, I don't think I'd ever use that means. I typically ask my husband to cut the food when at home or family dinner. But in public I just order something that doesn't require cutting. Silverware use to me is a big issue because I was never taught the proper means to use it...I don't even eat salad with a fork, I use a spoon and tare my leaf vegitables small enough...Home made salad, I don't order salad in public.
Where I get into trouble is cutting up letuce in a salad. I may think I've cut a small enough piece until I pick it up. Sometimes, I can tell by the weight and the way it "pulls down" on the fork. Other times, I find it almost covering my nose if I'm not careful. Thoughts anybody?
Thanks in advance,
Lou
Cool, I'm not alone with this problem. Lol, it's really an embarrassing thing for me to talk about, but the responses after my last post reassured me.
Modifated, there's no reason why, if you feel you've gotten a too-big piece of lettuce, gently set it back down on the plate or bowl and try again. There are lots of articles on the web about proper use of silverware. This will vary by region, but some are very descriptive. I think it's a great idea to ask a sighted person that you trust. I asked my parents about the right-hand cutting issue and my mom just said that's how most people do it, so I just practiced, and now I'm pretty good at it. Finding the nearest edge of a food item with a knife and fork is very easy. I have some sight, so can usually see an outline, but it's not that hard, and is essential for propper cutting. Also, it's considdered rude to cut more than a bite or two at one time. It's easier to cut food if the tines of the fork are placed so that the curve of the fork is facing you. Then just turn it, as you place the fork in your right hand. Don't forget placing a napkin in your lap, and correct placement of silverware after a meal. Knife blades should always face you. Holding silverware in a fist is rude, because it signifies violence, which silverware, (especially knives convey). If you have more than one fork at a place setting, always start with the outside fork first. Salad forks usually stay on the plate, is it's removed from the table. Never ever let used utensils touch a table. Even a knife handle is considdered misplaced if it touches a table. HTH.
How do you hold a fork and spoon?
I hate cutting up food. Ham is easy enough, thank God that's what we have at Christmas dinner. But give me steak, chicken, pork, I can cut it, but I feel so inelegant doing it. I'm a lefty, and cutting to me just feels so odd in my hand. I usually ask whoever i'm with if they'd mind helping me cut whatever it is.
As far as holding utensils, have you ever held a pencil? Let me see if I can explain it...
you sort of make a V with your pointer and middle finger, and let the handle rest about mid ways in that v. and then let your thumb just rest on top of the handle. When I was younger I held the spoon in my fist, I think my grandma showed me how to do it one day.
good holding silverware description. It's okay to sort of curve your fingers in underneath the fork or spoon, as it gives it a bit more leverage. I'd suggest to all you silverware newbies, to try it, using the previous description, and ask someone sighted if you're doing it correctly. You want to keep the handle of the utensil between your second and third fingers, but flat, then like was said, rest your thumb along the top of the handle. for a knife, hold it so your second finger extends along the top of the handle, you can keep your finger straight, as it's easier to use the knife that way. You can sort of wrap your third and fourth finger around the knife handle. HTH.
Before reading these posts, I had no idea ther was a proper way to hold silverware. My dad has tried explaining this to me, but since he's righthanded with forks and spoons, and I'm lefthanded, actually showing me how to hold the utensils really got confusing for him.
Did that description help you any? That's actually the best way I've ever seen it described in text.
As far as salads go, I've never really cut up lettuce. I have enough sight that I can double-stab a large piece of lettuce and deal with it that way, but I'm glad you've all come up with solutions for this.
More questions, anyone?
I notice when I talk to people, if we're, say, walking down the sidewalk, and they start talking to me, I'll automatically turn my head toward them. Or, if we're sitting side by side, and they start talking, I turn to face the general dirrection of where their voice is coming from even though I can't see them. Do other blind people do this? maybe it's not really an awkward thing, but I was just curious if anyone else does this or knows anyone who might do it out of habit or something.
Actually, that's a god way to simulate eye contact. When I was a child, I tended to lean my ear in the direction of the person. I find that sighted people are much more engaged if you try and "aproximate" eye contact.
Lou
Yup agree with Lou here and yes I do do that. And if you do, you get it in stereo as well as doing the best some of us will ever do at eye contact, being I can't control my eye movements.
I think turning toward a person who is speaking to you is more politeness than occwardness. :) I've always done it too, and I've had a lot of people tell me they can't tell that I'm blind because I pretty much make eye contact...
Absolutely. It definitely helps to talk to a person as face to face as you can be. Otherwise, they might not know you're talking to them, and they'll ignore you.
Also, great silverware description, Cala. Just to be honest, I can cut food, but I don't like to do it in front of people, just because it's somewhat animalistic. Therefore, I'll generally order something that doesn't need to be cut, or is soft enough to cut with a fork. For instance, if you order fish, you don't generally need a knife at all. Just start at the edge, and cut with your fork, and it works beautifully. I definitely think it's more important for you to learn to handle your spoon and fork correctly, especially in public. As much as you may protest about this, it's better to fit in socially, and to look "normal" rather than sticking out, and not caring how weird you look. Before you protest, let me remind you that we as blind people are the minority, so appearance is very important while representing ourselves to a sighted world.
Too true, too true. When, or if, you can avoid getting food that needs to be cut up, do it. Unless you like said food, in which case, I've found that even if you don't know exactly how to cut it, there's a way to bluff your way through it. Just cut it your way and look confident while doing it. That is, don't hunch back or try to be inconspicuous. Just do your thing. I've come to realize, based on experience, that people are a lot less likely to really notice your potential incorrectness. Now, as far as the whole facing people thing, yes, that is a definite must do. In fact, don't only face them. Listen to where the voice is coming from and raise or lower your face appropriately. That way you don't only face them, but are not caught accidentally looking at, say, a woman's breasts. You know you're not doing it on purpose, but that person wouldn't, even if they knew you were blind they'd probably feel awkward.
On the cutting thing, I've found that it's easier to keep track of what I'm doing by first cutting my meat in half. I then turn the meat so that the straight edge where I cut it in half is vertical on my plate. Then I start at the bottom and cut thin strips off gradually working my way up along the straight edge I created by cutting the meat in half. If the strip I cut off feels too long,I simply turn the fork a quarter turn so that the tynes are facing the side of my plate (i.e. so that the meat is turned vertically) and then run my knife along the outside edge of the fork and cut any excess meat off the strip. I do this on each side of the fork and am generally left with 3 bite sized pieces. After some practice with this method, I've become very comfortable with cutting meat in public and no longer worry about embarrassing myself. Hope this makes sense.
Pertaining to cutting, I used to have my dad do it for me, but this year I started doing it on my own. No one really taught me how to; I didn't think it was anything difficult, so I just randomly tried it on my own on an outing with my nuclear family. My sister corrected what I was doing wrong, which wasn't much.
As for facing people when speaking, I have always done that. It just seems natural.
Well answered all. :)
And now I'll prod Zoners for more questions again. C'mon boys and girls, there has to be other things you struggle with. No judgement, just some education for the group.
On the cutting thing, most people don't realize this, but restaurants will cut up food in the kitchen if you ask the waiter. I was at a business lunch and knew they were going to serve steaks with bones in them. After placing my order, I quietly pulled the waitress aside and asked if the kitchen could do this. They were happy to accomidate and no one at the table even really noticed. Saved a lot of embarassment.
Has anyone ever refered to someone as a him or her only to find out later that you were wrong? Voices can be really tricky and, names, especially when you don't know the spelling, don't always help. I know it really depends on the situation, but has anyone found a good way around this problem?
Oh, yeh, I've done this before, I was working a summer job and ordered an oven baked sandwich from a pizza place, it was delivered and I asked "So, you're the pizza guy?" only to find out it wasn't a guy. So, to put it in perspective, if you're not sure, be gender nutral until you know.
Oh, yes. and totally agree with the last post. When I was younger, I had some vision. I walked up behind this person and I saw a pony tail. I asked for directions, and was told"I ain't no broad, man." Ever since then, I have been genderless when addressing people.
Lou
Well Lou I used to be the recipient of such comments when I had me a mullet ... <g>
Anyway trans people can be the hardest: Those either in between or whatever, and yeah I've definitely done that. But then, this cop where I was working at the time, noticed I was red-faced after such an experience, and pulled me aside to say "You know it happens a lot to people who can see too ..." so yeah gender-neutral is good. English doesn't facilitate that too well, but I just say 'them' or 'theirs' in the third person. Plus we don't have a way to address someone gender neutral, like "Thank you sir, for the help ..." except military people seem to use sir both ways. So yes some of it relates to us not being able to see - that's more a complicating factor - and some is the social changes in general and some at least for English speakers is there is no really convenient gender-neutral way. When I was in Japan, it was harder to be gender-specific, granted my Japanese was poor but you take my meaning; different languages do this stuff differently ... Glad this has come up because yet again, it's something I've either never talked about or the situation was far more complex than just sight ...
Wow, it's been a long time since I've been able to look at this thread.
As to cutting up food, that is hard. It's amazing the number of blind people who are never taught to do it properly, and I was one of those. Heck, I wasn't even taught the proper way to hold silverware until I was in my 20's, and a sighted friend had the guts to gently tell me I wasn't doing it right, and then to show me the correct way. I wish I'd had a friend before then who would have done that, but then again, I never thought to ask.
I still have trouble cutting up food sometimes, and yet I will not ask to have it cut up for me, either. if others do, I don't get annoyed with them, it's just not my own way. I either order something I don't have to cut up, do it myself if it doesn't seem too difficult, or, very occasionally, ask a friend's help if I am in an informal setting with friends.
I was always taught as a child to face the person I am speaking with, to make as direct eye contact as I am able to, based on the sound of their voice. Usually I can do this fairly accurately. When I was younger, I had a habit of keeping my head down, which I have since found out many blind people tend to do. My parents and teachers were very firm on this, finding all kinds of creative ways to get me in the habit of keeping my head up and looking at people. If it's something you still struggle with as an adult, then maybe, again, find some trusted sighted friends to help you with this.
Last topic: gender. Usually I can tell by the voice which gender someone is. In the rare instances that I can't, I remain gender neutral until I find some other way of figuring it out. If it's a person I'll be dealing with over a period of time, I'll ask for their name, and give them mine. Usually the name will tell me. However, there are isolated incidents where neither works. Last week, I met an Amtrak ticket agent whose voice did not give away their gender. I asked their name, and of course it was Chris, which can go either way. I stayed totally neutral on that one. LOL!
moste people can tell by voice, The problem I believe moste of us were having was addressing someone first before we were sure as to the gender...
Alright. I have big problems with recognizing people. It might be because everyone on my college campus is either in late teens or early twenties. Lately I tell people that I don't recognize them. They tell me their name. Some actually get a little offended. I show them I remember who they are based on past experiences once they give me their name but I get the impression that this isn't as nice or smooth as my recognizing them first off. Anyone else acsolutely horrible with voice recognition?
Regarding cutting: I'm fine with most things. Steak is pretty easy because I can feel the bone with my fork or knife. I prefer to cut perpindicular to my body. I used to use my hand as a guide but a fork is more socially acceptable. I can discretely cheat if I hold the fork near the tines (or place my hand in such a manner that my fingers can kind of touch the food). Of course it's not so fun when the meat is sauced or the wafles have syrup. The only problem I have is that I might get the knife stuck in some fat or some tough crust (if we're talking about french toast) and don't realize it didn't cut all the way through. I usually find out when I try and fork a "cut" piece of food and some extra dangles off. I either cut it again or just quickly rip the two apart with my hand (or by shaking the fork if I'm feeling badass enough).
Cutting meat or breakfast food before it is covered with sauce or syrup is much easier. And after it's cut, you don't have to pour sauce or syrup all over it, you can have that in a dish on the side and just dipped the cut up pieces into it and eat it like that. I like to do that sometimes because it's easier.
As for recognizing people, I'm usually good with that, but when I don't recognize a person, I tell them. I don't pretend to recognize people if I don't. I'll ask them their name and if they get offended, I just tell them I don't know their voice because I don't or haven't spoken to them often. If people remain offended, that's their problem.
To recognize people more easily, I generally try to hone in on specific things. I have some friends that walk in a unique way and thus I can pick them out before they even come in my room. Some have unique vocal pitches, or an individual way of talking, and that helps clue me in as well.
Especially for those of you with no vision at all, how do you manage [independently, without a guide or friend] to navigate crowded areas and find empty seats or tables in areas with a lot of people or action? For example, If you're running late for a class and it has already started, how do you manage to find that last empty seat that just happens to be in the middle of the middle row without disturbing everyone? What about independently going to a restaurant by yourself and finding the counter and then an empty seat? Or how do you find an empty seat on a crowded bus without making a big commotion, feeling like a general idiot, or sitting in someone's lap? Since I have some vision I'm able to do most of this without too many problems, but I've always been curious how you manage in the situations above particularly If you don't have any sight at all? I mean I feel like an idiot for asking, but how does a completely blind person walk into a Burger King, find the line, use a cane and carry a tray and find an empty table or seat and then figure out where the trash can's are, or is it just a simple act of keeping cool and asking someone for help? I just look around and scope out the place and it usually works fine, but obviously some of you can't do that.
Brice
Ok I just wrote a rambly response and then pulled a Ronald Reagan and pushed the wrong button ... <g>
So I'll try again and maybe do better anyway:
I'm a lifer; no optic nerves, so no lights at all.
Basically the best I can give you is space and context:
A bar, a meeting room, a class room, a public rest room, all sorts of places have a subset of shapes you can expect. To a sighted person this may appear different, but I find if I first step inside, say a bar or restaurant, then just listen for a couple seconds, you'll hear the cash register bell, the general milling around, then when you think you're in line don't be afraid to ask, and I generally ask if I cut in front of someone - that can be tricky to tell if the line curved and you didn't pick up on that. I haven't been in a classroom for about 17 years so well, can't exactly remember but typically just slipped in the back. I went to a large university so there were at least foldable chairs in the back if nothing else.
There'll be people on here who do a better job with pointers but basically I just use a combination of context, expected space and whatever it is people have, call it radar or whatever, that generally does the trick. You might, by accident, apolozgze to a coat rack in a department store when you brush past it and it has a suit on it. I have ... they're about the same height as a person.
Oh yeah buses and trains: well I step on, and either ask, if the place looks moderately full, walk down the aisle myself if it's moderately empty and find some empty space, or if it looks really full just grab the rail and hang on; lots of people do that anyway. But never be too proud to ask, just be specific rather than not know where you're going ask for the such and such counter or whatever so you get the expected results - hopefully. Oddly enough medical establishments tend to be some of the trickiest for me. Hey bars are simpler ... lol
I've been totally blind all my life. When it comes to a crowded classroom, I would walk in and listen to where the voices seem to be coming from. If it's quiet, I'll just tap someone on the shoulder, and in a whisper, ask where an empty seat is.
In restaurants, particularly fast-food ones, the cash register is generally a good indicator of where the counter is. Or, if not that, you can often hear people giving their orders. From there, I can either get an idea of where the seating is based on sound again, or will have one of the workers show me where a good spot to sit is.
On the buses, if it's extremely full, I'll either stand, or usually someone will tell me where there's a spot. Other times, I am able to discretely run my cane along the edge of the seat, and find one that way. I sometimes lightly tap a person's legs in this process, but people don't seem to mind, and I'm careful about that.
Hope that helps answer your question.
Agree with posts 55 and 56 in all those things. If I'm going into a non-fastfood establishment for a meal, I listen for the cash register, or any sounds taht direct me toward people. Sometimes the hostess desk is opposite the cash register, and that helps too. Meaning that if the cash register is on the left, the hostess' desk is on the right.
As far as voice recognition is concerned, I'm tired of playing that game. If someone asks me if I know who they are, I just say "I'm sorry, I can't remember."
Lou
It's not so much about playing a game as it is trying to be respectful of other people. I have the worst memory for names in the world but I do what I can to explain that to others - after all, how would you feel if you had a great time with someone on one day, and they forgot who you were the next?
I get annoyed when someone with whom I have not spoken in a veyr long time asks me if i remember them. I'll just fib and say no just so they'll reintroduce themselves.
Any new questions, oh shy thread-lurkers?
If I am with another blind person, and it's someone I know who has a tendency to rock back and forth a great deal, I can always tell when they're doing it because their voice moves back and forth as they move. Should I quietly point this out to them and place a hand on their shoulder to get them to stop? How would you guys handle that type of a situation?
I hate it when blind people do that! It drives me crazy, and makes us look like idiots. In answer to your question, whether I do anything about it depends on how well I know the person. If it's someone I know and feel I have that kind of rapport with, I will gently say something. If I don't know the person wel, I usually ignore it. I often feel like one has to earn the right to be able to call another out on something like that. Unless of course it's in a teaching setting, in which case, it's my responsibility as the teacher/counselor to say something to a student.
And, Miss M, as far as voice recognition, far too many sighted people do like to play guessing games with it. That annoys the hell out of me! Would they do that to another sighted person? When they try it, I just tell them I refuse to play their guessing game, and ignore them till they decide to identify themselves. Yes, that may be rude, but so is playing games with me. But, in most cases, if the other person is being polite, I'll just apologize that I don't recognize their voice, and ask them to remind me who they are. Most people are just fine with that.
I'm a bit bolder than a lot of people, so no matter who the person was, I would probably take them aside and tell them quietly that what they're doing is not appropriate. There's no need to touch them specifically unless you're familiar with each other.
The person may have hurt feelings and may even lash out at you, because, after all, you're causing them embarrassment even if it's privately. But hopefully after some time they'll come to realize that the sighted world can see them and that it does affect how others react.
You really have no right to control or criticize the behavior of others unless you have some type of relationship or connection with that person. Doing so is more likely to brand you an insufferable snob, and age has little to do with this. Most people do not take kindly to criticism from strangers at random, and most people in public usually do not play God and criticize others even If in private they are embarrassed or disgusted by someone's behavior.
Rocking backwards and forwards is a blindism which unfortunately for many blind children and adults has become well entrenched within themselves by way of repetition over many, many years. If I know the person well I too will attempt to stop the behaviour, as futile as I may consider this to be.
This is really mean, but I go to a sports camp for the visually impaired. And those people who rock will sometimes be kicked in the back. Most of the time, the group leaders ask them to stop, but there are those meanies around as well.
actually, it's not a "blindism" as some of you refer to it; sighted people rock too as a way to soothe themselves. coming from someone who was an abused child, you should really think about that sort of thing before you rudely tell someone that's not acceptable. you may think you're helping the person, but really you're not. if you wanna help, put yourself in people's shoes and think about how you'd feel if you were abused growing up and a stranger randomly criticized how you did things.
This may be true, but everyone is not being abused or was not abused as a child. And everyone who is or was abused does not deal with it by rocking.
Also, if someone you know is rocking and you tell or ask them to stop, why don't you talk to them about why they do it. And if the time's not appropriate, talk to them about it later. These people who rock are not doing it simply because they are blind. Talk to your friends or acquaintances about why they rock, when they rock, and how they can break the habit if they feel that is necessary.
Hi, I like the idea of asking the rocker why they do it. You could say something like, I've noticed you rock a lot, can we talk about this? Then, it'll be easier to explain that it's not an appropriate behavior. If done sincerely, it is okay in my oppinion to point out an inappropriate habbit. It's best to talk to the person one on one, and in a secluded area. But if handled tactfully, and this is key, it is acceptable to call a person out. For one thing, a blind person, especially if they were overprotected, may not know that rocking back and forth is not a polite behavior. Sorry to say it, but the truth hurts. I've had friends politely point out faux pas, like wearing a wrong shirt, or lipstick on my teeth. It's not just blind people who are corrected, sighted people are too.
In addition, I apreciate that a sighted person cares about my appearance enough to point out a mistake. If understood that it's out of concern, then most people probably wouldn't be very offended.
I appreciate being told about things, but not by someone I don't know. I also recognize that not everyone was/is abused, was simply stating my case. what I said previously still stands, though: if I don't know something is an inappropriate behavior, I'd much rather be told about it by someone I know and feel comfortable with rather than someone I don't.
To the last post I totally agree. People who call out strangers on things have their own 'ism: it's called not bein' brought up right and taught to act civil. Of course if a friend tells you - when you're in a rush - that your fly's undone well, of course you'd rather they did ... but chances are the fly's undone not because of all the rude insinuations one can make and have made here, but because you forgot.
By way of example: I admit I do rock sometimes - albeit not to the extremes some on here have claimed to have seen but some is some nonetheless. I wasn't sheltered: I was beat for it. I didn't continue in some form of rebellion: I made my own efforts at curbing it. So Why? Hell I don't know, if I did I wouldn't be. However, I've got so many things - we all do - with kids, life, work, etc., that who's gonna keep that at forefront. Granted I don't in public or anything but everyone has a public persona.
Here's another one:
I had a blind friend who was really quite helpful spiritually and otherwise, but, perhaps less able to get around and all. People - like some who wish to rush to judgment on here - assumed I was being codependent or something because I took him with, got him coffee or whatever - what's two cups, I was already carrying one ...? Truth was I was learning a lot from him I wasn't learning elsewhere, and yes one can't quantify spirituality but we were both grown men and I wasn't his father or brother to teach him how to do stuff. He also never put me out: if I was otherwise busy he'd go with someone else or just wait. Not my kind of existence but as the last poster said, I hadn't walked in his shoes so wasn't one to judge. But you shoulda seen some people who'd seen me before and were assuming he should be like I was, and claiming me to be codependent and all. Well, I got promoted into another department, and he found his own way, getting promoted into yet another one. How he did what he did wasn't my affair: we only saw each other occasionally after that, but frankly the 'calling out' was at best annoying and at worst removed any respect I had for the one doing the calling out, for one simple reason: A fool is defined by someone judging the situation without fully checking it out first ...
Hi. To add to this thread, I hate it when people generalise. "I knew a blind person who did this, can you do it?" or "do other blind people also do what you do." Everyone is different. What I might find natural another person will have great difficulty with. Who am I to say something because someone can or cannot do something like me. Just my 2 sents relating to the previous post. Good for you for helping the person to get coffee.
Very well said, one and all. I think what it comes down to is your level of comfort and what you consider polite - if you notice someone, preferably a friend or relative, doing something that is likely to be making others uncomfortable, talk to them about it at your own discretion and be prepared for a possibly negative reaction.
Ok, I know there are more of you out there wondering about things - and some of you already participating may have thought of new issues. :) Keep it up.
well said, robozork; thanks for reitterating the fact people shouldn't judge unless they've been in another's shoes. when I rocked as a child, my mom would sit or stand in front of me and extend a finger out causing me to hit it hard. then she'd say, "quit fucking rocking, you're not a god damn rocking chair"! I didn't learn until I attended the school for the blind that rocking wasn't appropriate...but I'm glad I did.
so curious: how did you, if you did, eliminate it? I've given up for years although if I catch myselfdoing it in public I stop of course ... but that's not nearly the same as eliminating it ... My reason for giving up making the effort is not because I got beat for it, but because I gave *myself* headaches trying to annihilate it ... and ultimately found it manageable I guess you'd say, while I had too much else to do, frankly.
The important thing is not to make oneself sick on account of attempting to please the masses: yes there are things one does - we all do - to fit in but ... since we're on the subject just curious how someone themselves annihilated this habit? Apparently from what some describe on here it can happen in varying shades ... so just curious ...
In high school I was really good about recognizing voices, but now in college I suck at it since there are so many other people and I don't talk to most of them very much. I'm the only blind person witha dog on campus, so everybody seems to know me lol! I also hate cutting food. I was with a friend a few weeks ago and we decided to get woffles. I didn't realize the woffle would be the size of the plate! Cutting it was dificult and took forever, but I did it.
As far as questions... I'll think of some and post back lol.
as far as illiminating the rocking, try to ask yourself why you do it. I know it sounds silly, but I think it can be applied to lots of things in life. since you and I seem to be similar in this regard, you probably aren't aware you're rocking. if that's the case, try to pay more attention to how you feel when you do it and think about why you're doing it. is it because you're nervous? anxious? is it habitual? if it's habitual, try busying yourself with something else...or maybe come up with a code word with a family member that can be said when you're rocking so you know to stop. for someone I went to elementary school with, the code word was bc for body control; teachers would say that and he'd know to stop rocking.
For some people, I imagine rocking is a habit akin to twirling one's hair or biting nails.
In cases like that, it's one hell of a thing to break. Fighter's god some good suggestions.
I'd also say try to create "rewards" for not doing the behavior. For example, if you find yourself rocking, stop and check what time it is. Then, see what time it is when you find yourself rocking again. If you can get that timespan to increase between each rocking session, then give yourself a small reward.
Miss M, your suggestion reminds me of how I was taught as a child. I used to have a problem of liking to let my head hang down all the time. Not sure why, but I do know it's a common thing with blind people. most blind children have to be taught to keep their head held up and to look at the people they talk to, or at least most of the ones I've known have needed to be taught that. I was given rewards for keeping my head up for certain periods of time. As one example, I loved M&M's as a kid. So, if I kept my head up for ten minutes, I would get a couple of them. If I allowed it to drop in those ten minutes, the time started all over again. M&M's weren't the only bribe that was used, but they're what comes to mind.
To the person who says they were beaten for rocking, that's terrible! Totally unacceptable, in my opinion. Yes, blind children should be taught to overcome and eliminate such mannerisms, but not in a cruel, hurtful way. Like any other behavior you want to teach, I believe positive reinforcement should be used as much as possible.
this is a great thread. i am thoroughly enjoying it.
as for rocking, there are plenty of obnoxious things that sighted people do. since we don't ee them, we are often unaware of these. For example, there is a well thought of member of my church who regularly mines her nose for gold. until i was told, Of course I was mystified as to why people had such a negative attitude toward eating cookies she had prepared for a gathering. we have not right to correct others for rocking. we aren't their mom or their supervisor.if they have reached a fairly advanced age, they are pretty well aware that they do this. either they don't care or choose not to change.as for playing the guessing game of who people are, I usually say that I am probably the only blind person the sighted rude inquirer knows. however, i have the pleasure of knowing many more people who can see. so please would they understand and tell me who they are? Usually, it's someone who i talked to at a party 10 years ago and they are totally incensed that I don't have a clue who they are.
the ones that kill me are the sighted people who confuse me with some other blind person. Back in the 80s when my mom was dying of cancer, at the hospital where she was a patient there was a 40 year old 300 pound black medical transcriber who was blind. i was a 108 pound 20 something white woman who had worked hard to reach that weight. At least twice a day I'd see people who would say "hi barb" to me. I was like I'm not she. Finally, one day a black lady called me badrb and I said "you know honey, I'm not her. but us blind folk look alike you know." She about died laughing and for the rest of the time i was there she'd kind of look out for me.
yes, it was indeed horrible that I was beaten for rocking; unfortunately my mom is incapable of positive reinforcement. I'm thankful I was able to rise above it and learn from her mistakes.
Agreed with the past post. The cycle does not by necessity repeat itself, and I'm afraid if my daughter took a beting, so would the beater ...
Agreed with Turricane also; If I did it frequently or in public I would probably be concerned, but were I to expend energy changing something about myself it would probably be something more internal ...
I haven't had the guessing game pulled on me in awhile but good to know I'm not the only one has been mixed up with a diferent blind guy, one of a different race, height and build than me. If I could see I would be bad with names. I remember being at a trade show and being asked to fix one of our customers' machines. I went over there and did it, one-tracked mind as I usually am, and the sales guy asked if I'd got the guy's name. But I hadn't said anything to him except introduce myself / tell him why I was there, and when I was done, to tell him it was ready / what not to do next time ...
But as for fitting in, well I think you basically give it your best shot, keep a bit of humor in it, but realize those who are looking for differences / to pick a fight will find some.
I agree with the name thing as well. I've been called by someone else's name a few times. however, I guess I was lucky in that I simply told the person I wasn't who they thought, and that was that.
It baffles me that any of you were mistaken for other blind people. You'd think that the ones with eyes would do their best not to mess something like that up, hah.
And yes, to the posters pointing it out, sighted people do weird stuff too. But, sighted people are not the focus of this website or this thread, yeah? Everyone has their unique and individual quirks, but the goal of this thread is to address those bad habits that have become pervasive among the blind and VI community as a whole.
Step up, step up, don't be shy. Next questions?
I, too, have suffered from the sighted public's misconception that all blind people look alike. I was working at a job previously held by a blind woman. We look nothing alike, our personalities are nothing alike. She had left the job because she'd gotten married and moved. She also had a dog.
So, for my first few weeks, I was getting questions like, "How's married life," and, "Where is your dog today," etc. I was confused at first. It took me awhile to realize I was being mistaken for her. i'd tell people I never had a dog, and was never married, and then they were all confused. When I finally got it, and explained I was not her, I got told repeatedly that we look so alike, though anyone that knows both of us says we do not. Gotta love it.
head up? Does anybody else keep their head down a lot and catch themselves doing it? I have tried to always remember it but that's not too easy. Had physical therapy on a shoulder recently and the therapist kindly told me about my posture and to try to remember to sit up straight since that does not help arthritis when you slouch. I'm a senior citizen by the way. Luckily I don't have bac aches but did wonder about the posture and head down problem for others.
I think the head down thing is one of those things people *associate* with being blind, and I used to get prodded over that one, but you're right it's a general posture thing. The most sensible, though less thrilling for childish types who take it out on others, can be found at any site dealing with the typical office back pain problems most working people face. It is bad forthe neck but so is having the head up too high. The recommendations I got was simply to add more push-ups and crunches to the workout: strengthens the part of yourself that tends to flail in the posture arena. And if you can see, just make sure your screen is set so you are looking straight at it, which may kean slightly tipped or propped.
But since getting into vigorous abb stuff, pushup stuff, I've had no lower back pain in the office chair. Posture problems are a common issue with the western working world, and not unique to the blind at all.
well said to the last poster in regards to posture not being related to being blind; couldn't have said it better myself. I had the misconception for awhile too that it was until I asked a family member and got it cleared up. slouching is common among sighted people too; it's just one of those things we miss out on because we're blind. that brings up another interesting point...I'm glad these things are being brought up because we're all hopefully coming to realize some things we thought are specifically related to blindness, actually aren't.
I used to keep my head down when I was very young, and my oldest sister would always gently put her hand under my chin and lift up my head. I eventually got the message that holding my head up was proper.
I also used to keep my eyes closed a lot too. I actually had to train myself to keep them open. I did that arround the age of fourteen because my eye doctor scolded me about it.
That too is individual. I basically can't do it, meaning if I strain to keep my eyes open I look startled, so have ceased worrying about it, but am not offended if someone asks because it's a practical issue. Don't know why an eye doctor would be upset. Me having no optic nerves at all, I've never been to an eye doctor. Asking one to help me would be like someone asking me for a bug fix to some software, then fervently yanking out all power sources available to all my machines ...
This is worth putting in this topic I think - have been pondering where to put it, but with the bird-in-the-mirror emphasis on etiquette here there's a bit of irony:
First, tableware was first introduced in the west to prevent fights at the table. The modern steak knife came later; the typical table knife with the rounded tip (rounded to prevent people - critics? - from *stabbing* each other) came first, in a French court. Etiquette was intended to institute a form of civility - basically forcing people to get along. What we have now are people purportedly bearers of etiquette expertise, generally hasty to criticize the mannerisms of others.
The one-word name for these folks: barbarians. They may not smell bad in a physical sense, but in other ways are positively odorous! They too draw attention to themselves, largely by an overemphasis on others' mannerisms. Whether or not they derive secret pleasures from observing odorous and other unpleasant phenomena is up for debate, though they are likely to be seen like gadflies around any accident, possibly serving the community as a barrier between the accident victim and any ambulance chasers / news cameras trying to horn in on the situation.
Their conclusions are never wholly wrong, of course, the problem is only in the obsessive nature to which they are attracted to, and repulsed by, certain public phenomena. You or I may walk past a homeless person, or either of us being blind may walk past what we smell as a homeless person, and privately draw one conclusion or another. However, these barbarians will be at least as repulsed as you or I by the situation, but ironically return to it in the physical sense, and in literary form over and over again. To observe a similar behavior, place a bug zapper on your front porch on a hot summer evening, and observe how irresistible it is for the neighborhood insects, even while their fellows are electrocuted by the zapper.
In true barbarian fashion, they may target certain race, disability or other groups and acclaim mannerisms to said groups, be it "black speak", or, in a rather interesting twist of verbiage, "blind-ism", a botchery of racism turned inward upon itself like an in-grown toenail, so the offendees become the offenders. As I said, these are primitives, so blame cannot be properly assigned, at least in a guilt sense, because that would imply they had a basic capacity for deductive reasoning. They may be better suited for the bush, though my firm apologies are for the bush.
Mmm, the head-up one is a good topic to discuss.
I'd like to clarify for the readers that there's a difference between dropping your head, and simply slouching. When you don't have eyes to see with, naturally you focus on your ears and other senses. So you keep your head dropped down because you're focusing on hearing, instead of "looking ahead" to "see." When someone slouches, it does not deal with the head but with the spine itself - you don't hold your back straight-up and erect, rather you tend to lean forward or back slightly.
Keeping your head dipped down is not something you see often in the sighted community, because they have to keep their head up to look where they're walking.
However, it's important for someone who's blind to keep their head up and straight ahead because it symbolizes "paying attention." When you are facing toward someone and also have your face toward their face, instead of pointing toward your chest or the ground, it shows respect and that you are interested in what they're saying. It's also better for your neck.
Posture exercises can help with this, yes, but also just trying to remind yourself to "keep your chin up and face forward" can be good too.
Every man knows where the optical illusion you speak of breaks down is when you look straight at her like you're listening and us blind bastards can be reading Braille at the same time ... may work once but when found, never works again ... lol ... all optical illusions break down unless you're a pet bird looking in a mirror ...
For the above poster, I see a doctor about my eyes because he makes them. He scolded me about keeping my eyes opened because he needs to see my prosthetics in order to see the shape of them in my eye socket and how they fit.
This scolding made me realize that I, most times, don't have my eyes open, so I trained myself to do so. I know I don't look like I'm straining because I don't feel like it, and my constant smile shows that I'm not.
When I was younger, I used to have some vision in one eye. I opened it a little. I was always very photophobic, which caused me to keep my head down to shield my eye fom the light. Almost 20 years ago, I had cataract surgery that went bad. The point of this rambling is that I have light perception now, and that's about it. I find it extremely difficult to keep the eye open, and the slight amount of vision I haev beyond light perceptiond oesn't help much. In fact, I find it very exhausting to keep the eye open, or to try to do anything using vision. My eye is very small, as is the socket where the other one should be. In short, there may be various underlying reasons why people keep their eyes closed, or as has been said earlier in this thread, any behavior.
Lou
I think trying to keep one's head up and face the person who is speaking to you is an excellent way to show respect and like you're paying attention. Keeping one's eyes open isn't too hard, just give it some practice. I would like to know for those who aren't American, if some form of sighted guide is used in other countries. I'm saving up money to travel, and was just curious. Does anyone have any info on this?
All good points but still stand behind Post 92: image may be quite importnat / that includes the image projected by those ... obsessing about image? A recursive loop perhaps that would earn a hard break point ...
I have a question regarding what to wear in certain social settings especially those that are more business and professional rather than just the normal casual hanging out with friends. Since my question does not exactly follow along with what has already been discussed in this board topic, is it okay for me to post my question here, or should I create a new board topic for my question?
of course you can post here...this is a topic for any q&a...don't be shy. what's your question?
For the posts discussing keeping your eyes open, I too find it very difficult. It could be because I'm very sensitive to light, but I also have nystagmus and I notice when I'm forcing myself to keep my eyes open I'm very aware of the involuntary movements of my eyes and that's disturbing to me, not to mention like I said I feel I have to force my eyes open. I've gotten a few comments about it here and there, but if I explain why I prefer to keep my eyes closed most of the time they usually back off. Only one of my aunts was really insensitive about it and told me it was rude to have my eyes closed because it looked like I was sleeping in church.
For those who can't keep their eyes open, it's my opinion that I don't think you should have to. If it's painful or a great inconvenience then don't force yourselves. You have a right to protect your eyes even if they don't work perfectly. That said, if you feel self-conscious or are worried that other people might find it rude, there's always the option of wearing a pair of sunglasses, but that's only if you feel like it. If not, if anyone has questions, just explain it to them like you did to us on the board.
To the poster who has a question about fashion, by all means, post here. :) You're welcome to make your own thread if you think it'll be a very long topic, but if not, please post away.
Yes, this board was meant for questions like the one you're talking about. We just got a bit off topic, since no one had asked any new questions lately. In fact, you were kind of reading my mind. If you hadn't posted that, I was going to ask if anyone else had any new questions. So, fire away.
Okay, I was just checking to make sure that I was posting my question in the right place. While most people might think of socializing as a more laid back casual affair, I think there is also a more professional side of socializing as well. Considering the current economic conditions, socializing these days may also include attending professional events and meetings as a way to make connections that might help secure a new job. But have you checked the weather lately? I know that scientists are hard at work trying to convince us that global warming actually exists, but it’s down right frigid out there! So how exactly do you dress professionally so that you fit into the crowd while still dressing warm enough to withstand the howling winds that just seem to blow right through you at the bus stop?
I have a couple of nice suits that consist of dressy pants/shirts. I have a jacket that goes well with them, which works perfect for cooler weather. I know that's not much info, but hope that helps a little. I'm sure others will add to it.
You bring up a very good and valid point, Crazy Cat. You could wear a nice sweater and slacks. There are suits for women that have jackets, or blazers, that are also pretty warm. There are long-sleved dresses, made of things like velvet. Or, if you don't have, or can't buy, any of those, where whatever it is that you have, and just put a heavy winter coat on for while you're in transit. Most places are heated well this time of year, so once you're inside, you should be warm enough.
the key is dressing smart. even if you dress casual, but make sure that you dress smart. doesn't matter if you wharing t-shirt, or shirt itself, or jackets or coats, the key is dress smart. this happen to sighted people too, they sometime dress formal, but can overdone it. to show your porfessionalism, doesn't mean to say you needing to dress in formal clothing all the time, but, rather dress smart in all ocations, regardless of where you go, and who you meet, will help to show that you're smart. you can try to ask help from a sighted friend to match your clothes color. usually the general idea is dark tops goes with a lite color bottoms, and vise verser. you can't really go wrong with the theory of dark goes with lite color.
also, for ladies, try to whare some makeup. i know, there's not something that most lady will prefer, but, try to whare some makeup specially if you know you gonna meet with some professionals will help to brighten up your look and leave a good impression. it does not necessary need to be alot, make it natural, but brighten up with some foundation and lipstick... that will help with the whole "smart look"
To the person who wanted to know what to wear in a business setting. If you're a woman, a skirt, or nice dress pants, and a nice blous or sweater. It's better to not wear tanktops, flipflops, shorts, jeans or, casual pants. Minimal jewelry is okay, just nothing to flashy. T-shirts are generally not considered apropriate business atire. As far as shoes, closed toe is best, and you can go with nice pumps or flats. I'd say stilettos would probably be considdered inapropriate as well. I like neutrals such as black, brown, or khaki for business wear. Gray works well too, and of course white. A good thing about neutrals, is they match with almost anything. There are lots of articles on the net that may help you figure out what color combinations to use. For guys, nice pants and a shirt and maybe a tie. Some businesses require a suit, so check on the dress code. I've actually asked what the dress codes are at my employers. I'd rather ask, then not know. HTH, and ask away if you have any more questions.
Thanks for all the great suggestions, but I guess what I'm really wondering is how to dress professionally when it's so cold outside that you feel like bundling up in three layers of clothes before opening up the front door. It just seems like it would be easier to layer clothes under jeans and a sweat shirt rather than something that looks a bit more professional. I mean I understand how to coordinate colors and what constitutes as business attire and all that jazz, but I’m not exactly sure how to dress professionally while not freezing my butt off walking a few blocks to catch the city bus when it’s only twenty degrees outside. Are there certain pieces of clothing or fabrics that are good for layering and keeping warm during the cold snowy winter? Personally, I would love to be able to wear a pair of nice jeans and a sweat shirt or a nice sweater where ever I go, but I know that this may not always be the appropriate thing to wear especially in a more professional business environment.
I'd say it depends on the environment where you work. In the east, We're experiencing a cold snap. I wear dress pants, a shirt, and a sweater most days to work. I'd love to wear jeans and flannel shirts every day, and to be honest, I've done it while trudging through snow and wind. It depends on if I have clients to see. As BLW said, there's no harm in checking it out in a given setting. Oh, I also wear a very heavy winter coat. If you're travelling in the dark or dusk, try to make your top layer somewhat reflective, or do something to make you visible to drivers. At my wife's suggestion, I have a tiny flashing light I use when I think of it, but you can accomplish the same with a lighter colored coat.
Lou
I would suggest investing in some stockings, under-armor or other similar clothing that you can wear under everyday clothes. For walking the ten to twenty minutes to classes at college, I have a pair of leggings that stretch from above my belly button right down around my feet and it's probably the handiest thing I own.
I like the underarmor idea. Layering is great. You could wear a lightweight shirt under a sweater with some nice pants. Tanktops are okay to wear under things like heavy sweaters. I just got a nice coat Christmas that I wear to work a lot. As far as shoes, boots are okay. I have a couple of nice pairs. Just make sure they're not snow boots. If they are, make sure your pants are covering them. I don't generally wear skirts to work, but maybe some other girls have some ideas on this. If you want to wear a skirt, propper undergarments are key. I know girls who wear leggings under skirts, but I've never done this. Ask for suggestions on this one. I love cardigans at work. I wear them year round, cause our office is usually freezing in the summertime. the AC is right above my desk. I dress somewhat more casual at work, cause I'm not in a high profile position. But I still don't wear jeans unless it's casual Friday. I agree with Modifated. I'd wear jeans everyday if I could. HTH.
The one caution I'll give you about underarmor though, is make sure your body is completely dry before you put it on and that you do everything you can not to get it wet. Having wet clothing stick to you in the cold can lead to some nasty frostbite.
Several years ago, I purchased a very long wool top coat. It goes from my shoulders to my knees. I only wear it when I am forced to wear a suit and ty in cold weather, (which isn't often) but man is it helpful in those situations. Its dressy and isn't the warmest thing I own, so I only wear it when wearing a suit, but it does help a lot. I've also been known to wear long underwear under a dressy outfit. When I get to wear I am going, I slide in to a restroom, remove the long johns and put the dressy stuff back on. This usually saves my butt (literally) when I am forced to wait for a bus in the cold.
Jim
Alright, do we have any more questions from the group? These are getting more interesting as we go along.
Anybody have trouble layering clothes? I have a few jackets that your supposed to wear with them half zipped and a t-shirt or something underneath. I have a few t-shirts that I am pretty sure look good with the jackets, but I never remember which one looks right with what. I can ask friends, but I'd rather not have to... any suggestions? Does this even make sense? lol
Jenna
Perhaps if you labeled the matching jacket and t-shirt with identical labels such as small safety pins in discreet places. The key is to make the labels identical.
Lou
I like to buy my clothes in distinct textures. So, I'll know, for example, that the silky feeling shirt goes with the relatively smooth dress pants. I usually don't have a problem remembering this. Also, I organize my closet in such a way that my more formal outfits are in one area, and my more casual outfits are in another. If I need to wear a winter jacket, I just take it off and hang it up when I get inside. I don't see a problem with hanging it on the chair you're sitting on, as long as you remember where that chair is when you need your coat again.
I use safty pins to tell dark clothes from light while washing, but does anybody use beeds to match things? I'm thinking of tryig that.
I'm giving this a little bump to see if anyone's got new questions or new answers.
Don't be shy, my dears.
Actually, somebody did just ask a question. Well, it was related to what we were talking about.
I've never used beads to identify anything, but as long as they're comfortable for you, and as long as they don't draw too much attention, than I don't see anything wrong with it.
Hi, using tactile markers such as beads would be a good way to Id your clothes. You could always sew it to an inside hem, then it wouldn't show. I have some sight, so I can tell what does with what. Now about jackets. I usually buy them in a neutral color like black, gray, brown, khaki, and olive green. If you pick one of these colors, almost any color tee will look good under it. Generally, light colors look best under dark ones, and vice versa. So, if you're wearing a black jacket, a light pink, white, light gray or blue, or light purple tee will probably look best. This though depends upon the shade of the shirt and jacket combo. It's a good idea now days to have your clothes coordinate, as opposed to matching exactly. Now, if you have jackets in colors like red, blue, pink and other nonneutral colors, a white tee will most probably always look good under these. As far as keeping jackets open, it would depend upon the jacket, but I know lots of people wear their jackets open these days. On some people, this makes a very slimming silouette. The same concept works with tank tops and camisoles. I have several tanks in neutral colors that I know will work well with almost any top I want to layer it with. Beware of mixing different types of prints. It often is not a good idea. I generally stick to solid shirts/tanks under jackets, or striped shirts under jackets. I don't mix stripes and stripes. The same comcept of neutrals works well for skirts and pants too. Grab a neutral, and almost any other color will go with it. You could research what colors look great with neutrals. try sites like what not to wear on TLC, or just google neutral fashion tips, or something along those lines. Btw. I have several white cardigans, and these look really nice for spring. Hth.
Btw, there's nothing wrong with asking a sighted friend to help you coordinate your clothes. I'd rather do this, than leave the house looking mismatched. If you're out with sighted people shopping (and most people probably are), ask them when you buy an item what colors it would go with. This is totally Okay. Nobody is gonna think you're dumb for asking. Another thing about prints, wear them with a solid top or bottom that matches one of the dominant colors in the print. So, if you're wearing a gray and blue printed shirt, you would wear it with a gray or a blue skirt. Or, if circumstances allow jeans. HTH.
I'm sure most of us have sighted friends we trust enough to ask about getting anything or wearing something that's all messed up in one way or the other.
Yeah asking sighted friends is usually what I do or I try to go by texture to tell if something may look good and ask to make sure. :) thanks guys. This is a great topic
Hope it helps.
Ok this is a weird question but I just thought about it when I was reading over this board again. Last summer, my boyfriend and I were at a block party and this guy came up to us and was talking to us. He was a priest. I have a tendency to have my hands folded while I'm sitting around and I'm not doing anything with them, I don't know why, it's just out of habit I guess but I don't even really realize when I'm doing it. Anyway, the priest we were talking to pointed this out and asked me if I was nervous, then made a joke about how he likes to see people's hands folded...So what I want to know is, is this not a common behavior? No one else ever said anything about it, but I just found it strange, and it probably has nothing to do with being blind but I guess I'll post it here anyway.
I don't know, but I do it sometimes too. I guess we don't really know how many sighted people do it! LOL I can't imagine it being a bad thing though.
Hmmm. I've done this before, too, maybe more often than I think. Like turtle, I'm not always conscious of that. I think the priest was just making a joke, given that in Catholicism, people pray with their hands folded. Just out of curiosity, I might ask some of my trusted sighted friends about this: if sighted people do this, or if it looks odd when I do. I'd never thought about it before.
I do that sometimes too.
I have another question. When smiling, I've heard various opinions. Is it appropriate to smile without showing teeth? Should you always show teeth? I've heard some people say it's perfectly normal not to show teeth, but I've heard others say it's more of a sneer than a smile if you don't.
Hmmm, might have to ask some sighted friends about this one, too. But here's what I've heard in the past. It basically depends on how big your smile is. I mean, if you're laughing, or absolutely grinning your face off, there's almost no way you can avoid showing teeth. I think people will know the difference. When you smile, the corners of your mouth turn upward, especially the bigger the smile. If you're frowning, the corners of your mouth turn down, and I think sometimes your lower lip comes out a little bit. I imagine the same would go for sneering, too. So, what all that boils down to, is no, I personally have never been told it's not acceptable to show teeth when smiling, and I know I've done that a ton of times.
Folding one's hands seems like a pretty typical behavior for any person. Perhaps you were giving off other signals that might have made him think you were nervous? Otherwise, maybe he was just joking and trying to bring you into the conversation.
As for smiling, do what feels natural. A smile that's natural doesn't only effect your lips, but your cheeks, chin and eyelids as well. These are the ways people can tell if you're really happy or not.
It's just that sometimes I find myself smiling quite genuinely without showing teeth. That's why I wondered. Thank you.
Smiling is just smiling. Nobody will think it odd if you smile a certain way.
The only time I've been criticized about smiling is when taking pictures. Forced smiles can look really unnatural sometimes, so when you know you have to smile, think of something funny. I agree with the previous poster, maybe there were other hints that could have given the priest the idea you were nervous. I don't know how common folding hands is, but I'm sure he was probably making a joke. Instead of folding your hands, place them gently in your lap, but not folded. I think asking a sighted person about this is a great idea.
Hand folding is common...not much to worry about.
I agree. I've done it a lot, and nobody has ever commented on it. Hand folding, that is.